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Ants Vines and Churches

Charles Simpson: How to Stay Relevant in the Church Without Compromising the Truth?

by Greg Lancaster

We continue the conversation with Charles Simpson as he talks about how we need to stay relevant in the Church but cannot compromise the truth of God’s Word. You can find out more on our previous conversations on the VFN Torch HERE.

Charles is asked the question, What did you mean when you wrote in your book, Ants Vines and Churches, “Relevance is a large issue in today’s church. In pursuit of relevance, many groups have sacrificed integrity in the presentation of the Gospel. The failure lies in relating to individuals on a CONSUMER basis rather than a MISSION basis?”

We see this in the Church where the needs of the people are trying to be met while compromising believer’s mission of going out into all the world and leading others to Jesus. Charles answers, “I would say that my primary task is to obey God and to represent the Gospel and the truth, to the best of my ability…now if I am dealing with somebody I have to try to make it as clear and understandable as possible.” We would call this relevance.

“But if I compromise the truth to make it palatable now that is a different thing.” He says that we can be relevant by taking the message of who Jesus is and what He did for us to the lost or even to the Church by making it as simple as we can, but the story must not be changed! We cannot exchange the truth to be relevant. Leaving out part of the Gospel is not being truthful and is disobedience to God.

Like Paul said in the Bible, “I have become all things to all people so that by all possible means I might save some,” but he never compromised the Gospel! He kept the truth until he was beheaded. Let us all be found faithful in sharing the full truth of the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

What are your thoughts about relevancy in the Church? We want to hear from you! Write to us at Friends@VFNKB.com or in the VFNKB Community HERE.

Image courtesy of Storyblocks.com

Faith Faith Mountain GLM Hope VFNtv Programs

Charles Simpson Our Greatest Joy to “Be Fruitful & Multiply!” + The Role of the Traditional Church

by Greg Lancaster

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We continue the conversation with Charles Simpson as he shares wisdom on how we can be the Church which is to be fruitful and to multiply disciples for the Kingdom of God. You can find out more on our previous conversations on the VFN Torch HERE.

How does the Church start being the Church as Jesus called us to? Once you start being the Church, it is enjoyable! But how do we get there? The first great commission was to be fruitful and multiply in the beginning. That is family and is God’s plan for the Church!

Charles talks about the Tower of Babel and how God disbursed the people that were working to build the tower and confused their language. What he takes away from that is that “God’s purpose is to fill the earth and (what we take as) our purpose is to build a tower for ourselves and when we do then things happen…” He says that the next thing that happens is you can’t understand one another in the Church, and then you are scattering!

He also shares how he is a spiritual father and has spiritual sons and grandsons all over the world! He may not have a personal relationship with them, but he doesn’t have to or need to since Holy Spirit has led his ministry and the Kingdom of God is carrying on. He has fruit! Speaking of his spiritual children “You don’t retire from being a father or a great-grandfather. I think to be able to look at your spiritual children and see…I just rejoice. There they are out there, and they are doing it!” He says he looks at all his weaknesses and struggles and then sees the little fruit that has come from his life. Because of that people have done the same and it just keeps going through the generations! If you want to find the fruit you have to look in many places, which is beautiful because that is the Church that can’t be persecuted!

Greg and Charles talk about how the Church and the Western world has suffered from the “traditional” expression of church and what we have made it which Charles wrote about in his book, Ants Vines and Churches. “I think the traditional Church has served a great purpose.” He gives an example of the Catholic Church and how they have preserved many documents and history of the Church as have other denominations in the church. “I don’t have a problem with the fact that God has used them. My problem is, like with any movement, if you try to perpetuate it beyond its usefulness.” He was telling a friend that the hardest thing to do is to continue with a dying movement. He says every revival and spiritual movement all left seeds, but you can’t reproduce the same movement! The problem with much of the structured Church in the Western world is that they are trying to carry on something that God is finished with. God is moving in a new way! Unfortunately, tradition will always get in the way.

“Thus you nullify the word of God by your tradition that you have handed down. And you do many things like that.” Mark 7:13

“It is hard to turn loose of the flesh…” His father had told him to be careful that people didn’t only love his flesh which once he was filled with the Holy Spirit, he found out that many people in his ministry only loved his flesh as they left the Church! But as he walked this out in the 1960s revival happened without him having to do anything! People started coming to his Church that had never stepped foot in one. Many things shifted, including racial integration happening which was unheard of during those days and even Catholic nuns attended his Church as well. Many great things took place, and you can watch or listen to hear more!

What do you think about the Church in the Western world? We want to hear from you! Write to us at Friends@VFNKB.com or in the VFNKB Community HERE.

Image courtesy of Storyblocks.com

Faith Faith Mountain GLM Hope VFNtv Programs WATCH FULL PROGRAM

WATCH! Charles Simpson Our Greatest Joy to “Be Fruitful & Multiply!” + The Role of the Traditional Church

by Greg Lancaster

LISTEN NOW!

Charles Simpson Our Greatest Joy to “Be Fruitful and Multiply!” + The Role of the Traditional Church

“Thus you nullify the word of God by your tradition that you have handed down. And you do many things like that.” Mark 7:13

What do you think about the Church in the Western world? We want to hear from you! Write to us at Friends@VFNKB.com or in the VFNKB Community HERE.

Faith Mountain Third Great Awakening

Charles Simpson “The Church is Not Structural but Organic”

by Greg Lancaster

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Charles Simpson who has served in the ministry for 64 years since he was 18 years old, joins Greg and they discuss Brother Charles book Ants, Vines, and Churches. He gives wisdom and insight into the Church and how it shouldn’t be contained in a structure but should be able to spread like a vine.

According to Charles Simpson Ministries website, Charles was widely recognized in the modern charismatic renewal movement after he had his own spiritual renewal and co-founded New Wine Magazine where he served with Don Basham, Ern Baxter, Bob Mumford, and Derek Prince. He also founded Covenant Church of Mobile which is an organic group of cell-groups at homes based on making disciples of Jesus Christ and spreading the Kingdom of God. He also served on Integrity Music’s board of directors once New Wine Magazine birthed, what became, the largest praise and worship music company in the world! He has written many books and now serves as a spiritual father to pastors and is a consultant to churches and businesses. He also travels and ministers globally and is the Editor in Chief of One-to-One™ magazine. He has accomplished many things in his life for the Lord and continues to reach the world for Jesus!

Greg asked Charles what sparked his interest to write a book like Ants, Vines, and Churches? He says that he was reading a book Three Scientists and Their god’s by Robert Wright, who was a liberal commentator and he interviewed three scientists. This interview was in the 1980s and one of the scientists was the father of computers. This scientist’s theory was that everything is digital and that everything had memory. Then another scientist who studied ants, E.O. Wilson, he specifically studied army ants in Central America and was able to isolate a chemical that meant “bury the dead.” He sprayed it on a living ant, and the others buried it. He speculated about how the ants functioned and called them a superorganism with many acting as one. They were not structural but were organic. This began to affect his thinking about Christianity.

Originally his ministry was called Integrity, and that word is a mathematical term which means a whole number. Since it is a whole number it can integrate. “Integrity has a relationship to digital. If a unit is healthy and whole it can integrate.” He said this just went off in his mind. As he was sitting on his porch, he saw a flowerpot. He saw it as a metaphor for how the church is in America. “I thought that is like the Church; it’s a flowerpot. If you are going to see it, you have to go to where it is.” At the same time he remembered that Jesus said He is the vine. “I began to think that it’s not about locations it’s about spreading.”

This brought to mind the Kudzu vine, which is invasive and can sometimes grow 18 inches a day! It can cover a building if you don’t stop it from growing. “If the Church was like a vine or if it was digital, motivated by internal issues, rather than external, that we would be a lot more effective in the world.” It is Christ in us that should draw us together versus an organization. When we are drawn together with Jesus reigning in the midst of us, that is the Church!

“The founders of our nation had an appreciation and felt the importance of healthy free individuals. And as we have gotten away from God, we depend on systems more and more particularly the governments to coordinate our activities or provide for us. And I really believe they had a much deeper understanding of God and His Word, but of nature itself and how things ought to go. When you lose healthy individuals, there is no external structure that can control everything.” Where we used to be ruled by kings of a country, we are now ruled by kings of a mountain of culture versus being ruled by King Jesus. As Charles said, the Church has lost its influence in the world.

Greg shares how frustrating it can be to talk about the status of the Church to the analog church. Yes, the analog church meets our needs in the way of being with people by getting the socialization that we need. When the analog church is compared to a flowerpot, we make it look good by trying to make it the best looking “flowerpot” around, but it is limited! God showed Greg a flowerpot in a prophetic dream, and it was overgrown with the roots of the plant maxed out. Then the plant was picked up and put in a huge flowerpot. God also showed Pat Hamilton where the plant was pulled completely out of flowerpots and then planting it in the ground. This is where the journey began with Vine Fellowship Network, and we have been walking this out, learning how to be the Church. We had to come up with a name, so Vine Fellowship Network came from John 15 where Jesus says that He is the vine.

“I am the vine; you are the branches. Whoever abides in me and I in him, he it is that bears much fruit, for apart from me you can do nothing.” John 15:5 ESV

Charles wrote in his book that “Vines are opportunistic. Some are virtually unstoppable. Put kudzu in a flowerpot and in a few hours, you won’t see the pot again. Now that’s Church!” A flowerpot can be easily stopped, because you have the building to worry about, and it becomes about the building. But according to the Word of God, followers of Jesus Christ are the building of God!

“Do you not know that you are God’s temple and that God’s Spirit dwells in you? If anyone destroys God’s temple, God will destroy him. For God’s temple is holy, and you are that temple.” 1 Corinthians 3:16-17 ESV

Greg asked Charles what he meant by vines being opportunistic and unstoppable. “It follows natures path rather than a prescribed path.”

“The earth produces by itself, first the blade, then the ear, then the full grain in the ear.” Mark 4:28 ESV

This is the Kingdom of God! Jesus is the seed that fell in the ground, and the corn kernels are the people that follow Jesus. A pastor’s role is to bring out what God has already put in you and when we all move in our gifting that is the Kingdom of God. The Church, in the end, will look like the Church in the beginning. We are not all the same, and we can’t be cookie-cutter Christians! As we are discipled, we blossom into who God has called us to be as we are all unique.

We must be careful not to be focused on becoming like a certain person, as that is an easy tendency for humans, but always to be focused on being like Jesus! “Ambition takes you beyond your grace level! If you are out there in your mind projecting who you are going to be you are getting in God’s way. Because we have never imagined what God has for us…”

Charles said that the world is looking for authenticity and we can’t live in a place of ambition for our projection of where we think we should be in our lives or ministries. We need to be close to people and be who we are, knowing that we are all saved by grace, and that it is God in us that draws us together. Through relationship is how you can disciple someone because discipleship is more caught than taught. Pastor’s need relationships too, Jesus had his small group of disciples close to Him, you can fall when you are alone, but a cord of three strands is not easily broken. We can’t work with everyone, but some can stick close through the hard times.

Be sure to watch or listen to future programs as we continue this interview. What do you think about the Church being compared to a vine? What do you think about discipleship? We want to hear from you! Write to us at Friends@VFNKB.com or in the VFNKB Community HERE.

Image courtesy of Storyblocks.com

Faith Mountain Third Great Awakening VFNtv Programs WATCH FULL PROGRAM

WATCH! Charles Simpson “The Church is Not Structural but Organic”

by Greg Lancaster

LISTEN NOW!

Charles Simpson “The Church is Not Structural but Organic”

Charles Simpson who has served in the ministry for 64 years since he was 18 years old, joins Greg and they discuss Charles book Ants, Vines, and Churches. He gives wisdom and insight into the Church and how it shouldn’t be contained in a structure but should be able to spread like a vine.

Greg asked Charles what sparked his interest to write a book like Ants, Vines, and Churches? He says that he was reading a book Three Scientists and Their god’s by Robert Wright, who was a liberal commentator and he interviewed three scientists. This interview was in the 1980s and one of the scientists was the father of computers. This scientist’s theory was that everything is digital and that everything had memory. Then another scientist who studied ants, E.O. Wilson, he specifically studied army ants in Central America and was able to isolate a chemical that meant “bury the dead.” He sprayed it on a living ant, and the others buried it. He speculated about how the ants functioned and called them a superorganism with many acting as one. They were not structural but were organic. This began to affect his thinking about Christianity.

“I am the vine; you are the branches. Whoever abides in me and I in him, he it is that bears much fruit, for apart from me you can do nothing.” John 15:5 ESV

Greg asked Charles what he meant by vines being opportunistic and unstoppable. “It follows natures path rather than a prescribed path.”

“The earth produces by itself, first the blade, then the ear, then the full grain in the ear.” Mark 4:28 ESV

Faith Faith Mountain

CHURCH, DEEP LOOK AT HARD TRUTHS; 4,000 Salesman Close 100 Sales considered a Failure, Francis Chan

by Greg Lancaster

LISTEN NOW! Or WATCH FULL PROGRAM!

It is important that we evaluate whatever it is that we are doing; especially when it is for the Lord. We don’t want to continue in whatever we are doing only the find out at the end that our efforts were not producing the outcomes we were desiring. This is exactly what Francis Chan shares as he talks about what he has experienced taking place in the Church.

Chan describes the tremendous growth that he witnessed after starting a church out of his home. Thousands of people were gathering, and a college was even started through this growth. But something happened along the way that slowed the growth. “We just got stuck after a while because there was no room to grow…and I found people that were there that had been there forever that were taking no steps of faith”. As Chan continues, he points out that this is why Jesus gave us the Holy Spirit, to empower us to witness to the lost. “And that’s why it drives you nuts when you know you’re chickening out.” It was this understanding that caused Chan to look at what was taking place. Initially, he was seeing growth that more than doubled. “When we had 40 people and we grew to 400, I thought that’s awesome”. He witnessed the same level of growth when 400 grew to 4,000. Chan uses a simple business analogy to explain the success of this growth. “400 salesmen and we grew…they each made 10 sales.” But this is where the growth changed. “But now I have 4000 salespeople and that is a huge cost.” Chan continues, “4000 staff, and we make maybe 100 sales. That’s failure.” He then presents the sobering reality that would take place in the business world. “I mean you would fire someone with an army that big…” When we read Scripture, does our life line up with the commands and expectations that are written? According to George Barna, the American Church is spending $1.3 Million per baptized believer. What we are presently witnessing in America is a “come to my church” mindset versus a “go out into all the world and make disciples”. This is a “come-ye” church versus a “go-ye” church. Being the Church is not as complicated as the enemy has made it out to be. God has called us to be family; to be fathers and mothers, brothers and sisters. The enemy has attacked family. God has called us to be part of His family. God wants you to tell everyone about Him. Do you see this same paradigm in the American Church? What are your thoughts about how church is carried out? We want to hear from you. See the full conversation about this important matter happening within the Church, and so much more. Also shared in this segment: Francis Chan, Church growth, Vine Seminars, Charles Simpson, Ants Vines and Churches, George Barna, evangelism, the Great Commission, and eternity. Greg and John shared in this segment.

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